I'm Objectively Cynical...

I just got an outraged email from an outraged reader that declared I am "objectively pro-terror" (by which was meant "objectively pro-torture").

Yeah, whatever.

I'm not so much objectively pro-terror/pro-torture as I am objectively cynical. Don't ask me why. I mean, Lord knows my moral superiors on the left are still out there in the streets protesting the imperialist wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, right? They're still raising Hell about indefinite detention and extraordinary rendition, right? They're holding Obama's feet to the fire on Gitmo, right?

Fuck no.

So why should I take all this hyperventilating about torturey stuff seriously? Does anyone really think that next week Barack Obama is going to criticize Eric Holder for wimping out on the torture investigation?

Fuck no.

He's already caved. Hell, Obama couldn't run away from Holder's investigation fast enough, wimpy as it is. Given that, and give the fact that outrage merchants like Andrew Sullivan can't bring themselves to even murmur a hint of dissatisfaction with The Spineless One for letting Bush and Cheney - the architects of this so-called torture - off the hook, why should I get all worked up the fact that KSM got his fat ass waterboarded?

I've seen enough of the selective outrage, kids. And it's made me cynical. You've convinced me of one thing thought: 99% of the outraged howlers, in their heart of hearts, they really don't give a shit about waterboarding. What they give a shit about is:

1. Getting Bush,
2. Getting Cheney, and
3. Covering for Obama.

And if that's what makes you happy, go for it. Everybody needs a hobby.

Just don't ask me to take you seriously while you're doing it.

Comments

[Uncle Fester]

Shoot, nearly half of the populace or better is "objectively pro-terror".

Just ask the Head of the Department Of Homeland Security.

[Nelson]

It is pretty telling that after zero was elected the outrage over the wars collapsed. Cindy Sheehan is now somewhat of a pariah, a nuisance and banned on Kos.

[richard mcenroe]

Shoot, nearly half of the populace or better is "objectively pro-terror".

Just ask the Head of the Department Of Homeland Security.

Will Apply Skill Sets for Food.

[Uncle Fester]

And you know what? There's a lot of us around with the required skill sets these days.

[Mona]

They're still raising Hell about indefinite detention and extraordinary rendition, right? They're holding Obama's feet to the fire on Gitmo, right?

Fuck no.

Dennis, have you been regularly reading Greenwald or Digby in the last few months? I follow the former most closely (daily), so know know that his deep dissing of Obama (and the Dem Congress) is happening. He (they) have the Obamabot critics in comments and blogs to prove it.

[JeffS]

Fine, Mona, the lefties are dissing Obama.

But where's the same level of outrage we saw and heard when Dubya held the reins? Code Pink freaking out in Congressional hearings, and shoving bloody hands into the faces of Cabinet officals? Anti-war demonstrations every weekend? Cindy Sheehan held up as the media darling? People wearing orange jump suits in sympathy to the Gitmo prisoners? The faux Congressional hearings about Bush's abuses of power? The calls for impeachment?

Not so much lately, eh? In spite of the fact that we remain in Iraq, are ramping up operations in Afghanistan (hey, what happened to the conspiracy to build that pipeline?), and Gitmo remains open, with no viable plan (or support!) to close it.

Or do you consider dissing a sitting President in columns to be on the same level as calling for impeachment?

[elliottg]

just testing to see if the f*cktard still has the ban in place.

[Nelson]

elliotg Instead of testing how far an a**hole can go why don't you just switch to Kos and like minds?

[Mona]

Or do you consider dissing a sitting President in columns to be on the same level as calling for impeachment?

Greenwald always refused to climb on the "impeach Bush" bandwagon. But he is increasingly very critical of Obama and the Dem Congress -- just as he was of Bush and the GOP Congress. And generally (but not 100%) for the same reasons.

[Eric Blair]

Sorry Mona, the difference is so apparent as to make any "but...so and so is said!" sort of remarks just so much spin. And not very good spin at that.

[Simon]

Mona - I never read Greenwald, but even I know that he wanted Bush charged with war crimes.

Seriously disingenuous.

[Dennis the Peasant]

elliott-

You really are a twit.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Mona-

What you say about Greenwald is true enough. He has criticized Obama on the issue. However, my point is this: For every one Greenwald there are a thousand Sullivans ready and willing to excuse anything Obama does (or doesn't) do.

[PeterUK]

"Dennis, have you been regularly reading Greenwald or Digby in the last few months?"

Those great monuments to self importance? Meanwhile in the real world "One Greenwald does not a Summer make".

[PeterUK]

"elliott-

You really are a twit".

T*it please!

[JeffS]

Seriously disingenuous.

And deliberately so, I think, Peter.

Mona, as Dennis points out, Greenwald is ONE voice. Among many within the leftie ranks. The volume of dissent today is severely muted since Obama was elected.

And if not muted, then mutated from dissenters to spin doctors.

So that argument won't wash.

[Jim Ryan]

99% of the outraged howlers, in their heart of hearts, they really don't give a shit about waterboarding. What they give a shit about is:...

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! Johnny, tell him what he's won!

[donniedarko]

I am having a little trouble wrapping my mind around the term "objectively pro-terror". I'm not sure I understand what that means.

[J West]

1. You nailed it with 1,2,3.
2. Fester is right about support of torture. It's a middle class thing.
3. It's not that the media (and pols) don't get the middle class. They are trying to la-la-la them away.
4. Where is the usual cast of leftish whiners?
V/R JWest

[Dennis the Peasant]

donnie-

It was clear that the emailer was equating terrorism with torture. Because I wasn't following the Party Line on torture, I was pro-terror because torture is just terror under a different name.

[richard mcenroe]

Dennis, you had to expect this sooner or later. There is no sliding scale of liberalism/progressivism. Differ with them on the slightest article and you are not just "fairly liberal" or "sympathetic" on certain issues. You are apostate. You are demonized. They have internalized Alinsky's pragmatic if cynical tactics and turned them into a dysfunctional life-values set. Their every thought, word and deed is woven into a tapestry of deceit, hypocrisy, self-righteousness, manipulation and one-upmanship.

In short, they have become their parents. But instead of having the decency to practice their vices in the offices of Procter & Gamble or the Ladies' Auxiliary they are practicing it in the halls of government and the classrooms of our children.

We are being governed by the Harper Valley PTA and they are shaping this nation for a generation to come in their own petty image.

[donniedarko]

What tortureare they talking about? The penny-ante stuff the left have their panties in a wad about or the "fill an empty swimming pool with starving lions then tie a man's arms behind his back and suspend him over the pool while slowly lowering him into it until the cats can eat him while his wife and children watch kind" of torture. Oh yeah, once he is dead you chop the wife's head off with a rusty machete then rape and strangle all the children.

[Mona]

Mona - I never read Greenwald, but even I know that he wanted Bush charged with war crimes.

Yes, and a good many others in the Bush Admin. Increasingly, he finds Obama complicit in those crimes, and possibly ready to commit some of the same ones. (Some of his commenters have started beating the drums for Obama's impeachment, while others are agitating for forming [yet another] third party.)

Greenwald, Digby and Jane Hamsher don't give Obama or Holder any passes. Not all the better-known "left" bloggers are failing to hold Obama's feet to the fire, just as they did with Bush/Cheney.

As for Sully, he's not a lefty or a righty -- he's, well, Sully. I've never been a fan.

[PeterUK]

Mpna.You're a sweety.but WTF are these people you admire?

[Lit3Bolt]

Greenwald and Digby deserve some credit for being critical of Obama. I think Dennis and others are right though that the criticism has slackened off by the Left at large, which is only natural, because the flip side is that every Republican has rediscovered their inner fiscal scold now that the Dems are in power. Some lefty bloggers are idealists (who write books, but still) like Greenwald and Digby. However, Kos and many many others are now complicit with the two party system in American politics, which is to accumulate political power at ANY COST. So vote Democratic, even though their healthcare bill is a steaming wasteland of incomprehensibility, Dems hemorrhage money to corporations, continue to wage war and torture, and ramp up the deficit. Incompetence...it's not just for Republicans anymore, baby!

However, also remember that in addition to Bush and Cheney, Pelosi and HRC and many many other Democrats are also complicit in torture. It was not an exclusively Republican gig, and many many Dems joined in, or knew about it, which makes them just as war criminal-licious as the Bush Admin. So the political class en masse goes free because they all wallowed in this mud.

Now, we can continue to try to HUMILIATE this dipshits, and they deserve it, but frog marching anyone in handcuffs is a pipedream, because the politicians and media are protecting their own. It will not happen ever. How's that for some Hope and Change?

[Tom Grey]

Of course torture works, sometimes; that's one reason it's always been popular.

But I think chopping off arms, or even fingers, like what Saddam did to those 6 Iraqis who were ignored by the media when they visited in support of Bush, is definitely torture.

Insofar as waterboarding/ drowning, but being revived, results in no permanent physical injury, similar to sleep deprivation, I can accept a torture line where those techniques are considered the toughest that are not-yet torture. I have yet to read how many minutes of sleep deprivation are required before it's torture; and something like that is needed.

Anyway, keep up the good, cynical work. I've been not-blogging most of this year; it's also ok -- glad you still are. Your take on the Obama WTF health reform is refreshing.

[Mona]

Mpna.You're a sweety.but WTF are these people you admire?
Well, first, thanks for calling me a "sweetie" -- don't get that very often. :)

Greenwald and Digby are very bright, analytical thinkers. I agree with the former more often than the latter, but neither are Democratic Party hacks. Not all A+ bloggers identified as being on "the left" (rightly or wrongly) are in bed with Kos, btw.

[LYT]

Given that Da Raj was the guy who started calling people "objectively pro-fascist," might it not be safe to assume that "objectively pro-terror" is some kind of satirical riff on this?

Can't say for sure without seeing the whole email, but it seems possible. And certainly Dennis, you of all people would be expected to get such a joke if indeed it were intended as such.