It's Time For Your Re-Education Classes, Children...

Glenn Greenwald has always struck me as kind of a Glenn Beck for lefties, which is why I don't bother reading him. With that disclosed, here's an article by Greenwald that I have read. It was the noble sentiment of the title that drew me in. He's at his hysterical best here (and his hysteria is what reminds me of Beck), but the real winner is that title:

What every American should be made to learn about the IG Torture Report

That's right. I should be made to learn it... In Glenn Greenwald's Amerikkka, I have no choice in the matter: I will read the report, I will learn its contents and I will draw the appropriate conclusions.

No word on what punishment is in store if I fail.

Blowing smoke in my face?

For five minutes?

Oh, Glenn, you're so savage...

Comments

[PeterUK]

Even Americans under ten years of age?

[richard mcenroe]

No, Brazilian kids under ten years of age. That's why he moved there.

[markg8]

They forced German burgers to clean up concentration camps and bury the dead. It's a good idea for you guys to face the music too. Of course that won't stop you from agreeing with Cheney that torture "works" proving yourselves as savages once again.

[PeterUK]

Would those German burgers have been with or without mustard? Ignoramus!

[PeterUK]

"If I had my way I'd carve a big "R" into your foreheads like Brad Pitt does to fuckin Nazis in Inglorious Basterds."

"proving yourselves as savages once again".

[Dennis the Peasant]

Spare me righteous indignation, Burgher Boy.

My bet is this: The left's interest in torture - including Greenwald's - is based entirely on the premise that it can be used to prosecute Bush and Cheney. Otherwise, it would go the way of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan... That is, no longer of interest.

[Simon]

Does that mean that you should be blindfolded, put on a midnight plane to a Turkish prison and flogged there with a wet lettuce on your nether regions Mark, to teach you the consequences of your support for rendition ? Maybe you'd enjoy it...

[markg8]

Bush and Cheney are war criminals as spelled out in the Geneva Conventions. That goes for Rummy too. Of course I want to see them prosecuted Dennis. What right thinking American doesn't?

[David]

"What right thinking American doesn't?"

No right thinking American does. That's why you do.

[PeterUK]

You might find being prosecuted under the Geneva "Conventions" slightly more difficult than you think.

[Mona]

Nice way to dismiss that Greenwald documents that torture has been committed by Americans. And as for the ludicrous focus on his hyperbole about "making" Americans read the IG report, I will simply quote his entire Update II, my emphasis:

To those blithely dismissing all of this as things that don't seem particularly bothersome, I'd say two things:

(1) The fact that we are not really bothered any more by taking helpless detainees in our custody and (a) threatening to blow their brains out, torture them with drills, rape their mothers, and murder their children; (b) choking them until they pass out; (c) pouring water down their throats to drown them; (d) hanging them by their arms until their shoulders are dislocated; (e) blowing smoke in their face until they vomit; (f) putting them in diapers, dousing them with cold water, and leaving them on a concrete floor to induce hypothermia; and (g) beating them with the butt of a rifle -- all things that we have always condemend as "torture" and which our laws explicitly criminalize as felonies ("torture means. . . the threat of imminent death; or the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering . . .") -- reveals better than all the words in the world could how degraded, barbaric and depraved a society becomes when it lifts the taboo on torturing captives.

(2) As I wrote rather clearly, numerous detainees died in U.S. custody, often as a direct result of our "interrogation methods." Those who doubt that can read the details here and here. Those claiming there was no physical harm are simply lying -- death qualifies as "physical harm" -- and those who oppose prosecutions are advocating that the people responsible literally be allowed to get away with murder.

Finally, as for the title of this post: it was just a way of expressing the view that Americans who want to justify or endorse the torture we engaged in should be required to know what was actually done -- not hide behind the comforting myth that "all we did was pour some water down the noses of 3 bad guys"; I wasn't trying to propose a new law compelling that every citizen read the IG Report.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Finally, as for the title of this post: it was just a way of expressing the view that Americans who want to justify or endorse the torture we engaged in should be required to know what was actually done -- not hide behind the comforting myth that "all we did was pour some water down the noses of 3 bad guys"; I wasn't trying to propose a new law compelling that every citizen read the IG Report.

Oh, I see: Not everybody will be made to read the report. Just those who disagree with Glenn. That clears everything up, doesn't it?

You can easily see where I erred, can't you...

[PeterUK]

"Glenn Greenwald
Monday Aug. 24, 2009 18:25 EDT
What every American should be made to learn about the IG Torture Report"

Well yes, Mona,Greenwald did. He may be walking back from the title of his piece.but that is what he said,in unequivocal language.

[Mona]

Oh, I see: Not everybody will be made to read the report. Just those who disagree with Glenn. That clears everything up, doesn't it?

Do you agree with and defend the practices Greenwald identifies in the IG report? If you don't know what was done, you really have no business mouthing off about it -- that's his point.

[Mona]

He may be walking back from the title of his piece.but that is what he said,in unequivocal language.

It is called hyperbole -- and I knew the minute I saw the headline he was going to catch some crap for it. But being familiar with his views on free speech and such, as well as his entire corpus of writing, I knew he didn't mean it literally. But you are correct insofar that it was an unfortunate way to put it.

So, let's stipulate he choose poor words to introduce his discussion of the IG Report.

Do you defend what that Report details?

[PeterUK]

"It is called hyperbole -- and I knew the minute I saw the headline he was going to catch some crap for it."

Then you should have emailed him.

As for your second question.WTF has it got to do with you Mona? Again, another liberal demanding.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Mona-

It would be hard to describe the level of indifference I feel about the IG Report.

Wait...

Yes, I can describe my level of indifference:

I am as indifferent to the IG Report as last year's anti-war Democrats are indifferent to Obama's warmongering today.

So as you can see, I'm pretty fucking indifferent.

[markg8]

"as you can see, I'm pretty fucking indifferent."

That ought to go up there under "Dennis the Peasant." Or maybe "I no longer give a shit."

[Guesst]

Like, OMG DtP. You are being called out to defend the details of The Report (in bold!), because you criticized Greenwald (which had nothing to do with what was in The Report).

Some things really do not ever change.

[mantis]

Maybe Glenn will send you to a death panel if you don't read it. Scary.

[PeterUK]

Not from Brazil he can't.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Actually, I'm expecting Glenn to write a post entitled thusly:

What every American should be made to learn about Sarah Palin's death panels

Of course, only those who disagree with Glenn is be required to attend classes.

[mantis]

Define "required." Required by whom? A blogger? What sort of enforcement mechanisms are there?

[Jim Ryan]

I don't have an argument. I just enjoy the thrill of self-righteousness I get by taking the "moral high ground" against torture.

If Barack has to torture some of these guys I'll reconsider. Then, I'll take the pro-torture position because of the thrill of moral seriousness I'll get by taking the "more nuanced" position in favor of torture.

I might add: you conservatives ought to listen to serious, level-headed, staunch conservatives like Andrew Sullivan on this issue.

[Mona]

Then you should have emailed him.

You are correct, and I did consider it.

As for your second question.WTF has it got to do with you Mona? Again, another liberal demanding.

Actually, I'm a libertarian who gets all pissy with liberals who diss all libertarians as "Republicans who want to smoke dope." But in any event, I had been under the impression that this is a site for political discussion, and that asking what people thought of GG's actual arguments about the IG Report, and the contents of said Report, was hardly extraordinary.

But if many of you apparently regard my inquiry as some sort of beyond the pale "demand," well so be it. (shrug)

[Dennis the Peasant]

Mona-

But if many of you apparently regard my inquiry as some sort of beyond the pale "demand," well so be it. (shrug)

Nah. You're fine. I flunked out of diplomacy school. So have a number of my commenters. Blunt is how you get it around here, don't let it bother you.

[PeterUK]

Mona,
Comment is free,answers cost. No cheques.

[Mona]

In his latest post, Greenwald cites that commie, Islamofascist-loving Tom Paine on the limits of executive authority and the rule of law. And as Greenwald so often does -- curse his "liberal" sick soul -- he cites Tom Paine extensively. (Greenwald has this unAmerican habit of frequently quoting our Founders.) GG also notes:

Never mind that Ronald Reagan signed the Convention Against Torture which compels the U.S. to prosecute anyone authorizing torture; that the Treaty proclaims that "no exceptional circumstances whatsoever . . . may be invoked as a justification of torture"; and that Reagan himself said the Treaty "will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today."

Ronnie was a commie/lib, too! Who knew?

[Mona]

In his latest post, Greenwald cites that commie, Islamofascist-loving Tom Paine on the limits of executive authority and the rule of law. And as Greenwald so often does -- curse his "liberal" sick soul -- he cites Tom Paine extensively. (Greenwald has this unAmerican habit of frequently quoting our Founders.) GG also notes:

Never mind that Ronald Reagan signed the Convention Against Torture which compels the U.S. to prosecute anyone authorizing torture; that the Treaty proclaims that "no exceptional circumstances whatsoever . . . may be invoked as a justification of torture"; and that Reagan himself said the Treaty "will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today."

Ronnie was a commie/lib, too! Who knew?

[Mona]

In his latest post, Greenwald cites that commie, Islamofascist-loving Tom Paine on the limits of executive authority and the rule of law. And as Greenwald so often does -- curse his "liberal" sick soul -- he cites Tom Paine extensively. (Greenwald has this unAmerican habit of frequently quoting our Founders.) GG also notes:

Never mind that Ronald Reagan signed the Convention Against Torture which compels the U.S. to prosecute anyone authorizing torture; that the Treaty proclaims that "no exceptional circumstances whatsoever . . . may be invoked as a justification of torture"; and that Reagan himself said the Treaty "will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today."

Ronnie was a commie/lib, too! Who knew?

[Mona]

PLEAS DENNIS, delete two of my 3 posts that say the same thing. I didn't get there was a second page, and thought my post was getting lost in the ether. So sorry.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Mona-

Either you were on the varsity typing team or you are unaware that Typepad is, at times, pretty slow to record comments.

If you're lucky, sometimes they get sent to the spam bucket for no particular reason.

In any event, send it once and then give it a minute.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Mona-

The guys you need to talk to are Barack Obama and Eric Holder. I was not consulted by the White House as to whether to give Bush and Cheney a "Get Out of Jail Free" pass. They came up with that idea themselves.

Honest.

[Mona]

If you're lucky, sometimes they get sent to the spam bucket for no particular reason.

I know -- I blog at Jim Henley's Unqualified Offerings, and not infrequently we have to liberate a real comment from the Viagra filter.

[PeterUK]

" I was not consulted by the White House as to whether to give Bush and Cheney a "Get Out of Jail Free" pass. They came up with that idea themselves."

You weren't? What is the world coming to?

[Guesst]

We are told by Greenwald that we need to know what people did "in our name(s)", as if we should be ashamed of condoning psychological and physical intimidation.

Not!!

[markg8]

Of course, only those who disagree with Glenn is be required to attend classes.

The problem is Dennis while you guys were making up shit to defend Bush or trying to get PJM off the ground some of were paying attention to what was going on in the world. Don't blame us because you need to go to summer school.

[Mona]

Dennis is exactly correct in writing:

The guys you need to talk to are Barack Obama and Eric Holder. I was not consulted by the White House as to whether to give Bush and Cheney a "Get Out of Jail Free" pass. They came up with that idea themselves.

Honest.

Which is what Greenwald (and I) have been saying. GG gets tons of shite from Obamabots, too.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Mark-

Have you written Obama yet, asking for an expanded investigation?

In the meantime, what's the excuse you think he's offering for limiting this to low-level drones?

[markg8]

The DOJ (meaning Holder) is tasked with this Dennis. If you think GG is pissed now just imagine how his constitutional jammies would get in a bunch if Obama started leaning on Holder whenever he felt like it instead of letting him do his job. The AG is the nation's lawyer not the president's.

And as I said in the other thread Cox went after the plumbers, Liddy and Hunt first too. While I think Holder ought to start higher I'm not privy to his plans. I doubt the ground level torturers will have any compunction about ratting out the higher ups. They never do.