When In Doubt, Be Perplexed...

To put it mildly, things aren't working out quite the way progressive dimwits Kevin Drum and Matthew Yglesias had hoped. And, true to form, rather than actually spending time thinking through the merits and/or lack thereof in matters of policy and/or specific legislation, they decide the real problem is Fox News. Yeah, I was surprised, too:

If you live in Washington and work in politics, it’s always almost shocking to read the truth about how low the ratings are for cable news. Especially when you’re talking about daytime cable news in a non-election year. As Kevin Drum says “Take away the echo chamber and Glenn Beck would be about as important as a guy on a soapbox in Central Park. Which is basically what he is.”

But the reason it’s hard for political pros in DC to grasp this is that people in Washington are constantly watching cable news. It’s really weird. Obviously there’s no way to make this happen, but I think our politics would get a lot healthier if you could simply prevent anyone from watching it during working hours. People would find out that total ignorance of what’s on TV would leave them about as in touch with their constituents are they are right now since nobody watches cable news. By contrast, outlets that really are influential in terms of determining what people know—things like local broadcast TV news—are never watched by DC political professionals because you can’t see them without living in the local area.

Given that nobody actually watches CNN or MSNBC at any time of the day or night, it isn't hard to figure out who Matthew wishes would go away.

It now appears that Matthew has adopted the Andrew Sullivan approach for dealing with an ineffectual Democratic President, a dysfunctional Democratic White House, deeply divided Congressional Democrats and a progressive movement that has, at almost every turn, sold out to politics as usual. That approach? Blame the mainsteam media for not being sufficiently objective and/or analytical and/or sophisticated and/or... Well, you get the picture.

So that's where the cream of the scum of the progressive chattering classes are headed these days: Shoot the messenger. If we could just make Glenn Beck go away, everything would be shits and giggles. It's little more than the old Air America argument: The real problem is one of messaging. Which is, of course, the sort of answer you come up with when you cannot - or will not - face reality.

Comments

[Blast Hardcheese]

Dennis, 'cream of the scum' is a lovely phrase. If you ever write a book, make that the title.

[TC Lynch]

"By contrast, outlets that really are influential in terms of determining what people know—things like local broadcast TV news—are never watched by DC political professionals because you can’t see them without living in the local area."

That sentence is so massively stupid, on so many levels, the mind boggles when one realizes this asshat got paid to write it, and release it into the public square.

[harvey]

Sean Penn said it even better:

"Every day, this elected leader [Chavez] is called a dictator here, and we just accept it, and accept it. And this is mainstream media, who should -- truly, there should be a bar by which one goes to prison for these kinds of lies."

[William]

Here's the problem with the Prog approach to everything, encapsulated by a Drum sentiment:

I think our [insert latest cause] would get a lot healthier if you could simply prevent anyone from [engaging in Constitutionally protected activity deemed counter agenda] during [working hours at a minimum, usually for one's entire life]."

God and wood sprites save us from these people and their good ideas!

[Tom]

Your post is really stupid.

I read Yglesias all the time, and suggesting that he is saying that Fox News is the problem or that things aren't going as he would like is just blatant misrepresentation of his writing.

First, the post you link to says no such thing. He doesn't say any of what you say he does. There is no "Obama is being screwed by the distortions of Fox News", no the democrats can't get a fair shake, no the media is biased!!!!1!! that routinely comes from right wingers. It merely says that DC insiders would be more productive if they were less focused on how things are playing on cable news, or more specifically if you prefer to infer, fox news. He repeatedly writes that Democrats and elected representatives generally should not be so concerned with their reelection hopes - they will land on their feet and be fantastically rich regardless - and instead pursue policies that benefit their constituents.

Rather than "blaming the MSM", Yglesias has repeatedly pointed fingers more at our dysfunctional political structure - our strong presidential system, our redundant check and balance procedures, our supermajoritarian Senate, and the anti-democratic nature of the Senate generally. He has also pointed fingers at our electoral system (electoral college, first past the post, the growing size of congressional districts, and the dearth of elected officials Americans need to vote for.

All these are debatable points. I have never seen him write anything approaching what you say he does.

[richard mcenroe]

If only it were limited to the government drones. Here in LA, the "civil" servants of the VA hospital keep the common area TV's tuned to CNN like it was a freaking airport. Talk about a captive audience.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Funny, I could have sworn I saw Kevin mention Glenn Beck's name, and could have sworn I saw Matthew repeat said name. Evidently both did that for no particular reason. Right?

Anyway...

Rather than "blaming the MSM", Yglesias has repeatedly pointed fingers more at our dysfunctional political structure - our strong presidential system, our redundant check and balance procedures, our supermajoritarian Senate, and the anti-democratic nature of the Senate generally. He has also pointed fingers at our electoral system (electoral college, first past the post, the growing size of congressional districts, and the dearth of elected officials Americans need to vote for.

Yep. He's managed to find fault with just about everything other than the quality of the legislation itself and the quality of the leadership attempting to guide that legislation to passage. Funny how that works.

[Patrick A.]

Why, certainly we'd have better governance without the cable commentariat, if we and our representatives were chiefly informed by non-FOX locally broadcast alphabet affiliates regaling us with community murder, rape, arson, shopping, cute weather forecasts, man-in-the-street polls, and TANG memo-like news from their national sponsors.

[Jonathan W.]

Dennis - Just a thank you for your blog and for your covering subjects and authors that I turn up often on Memeorandum. I just can't seem to click on Myglesias, or anything by Kevin Drum or Andrew Sullivan etc..
You do the dirty work for me and turn the synopsis into very good reading, intelligent and witty stuff. Thanks again.

[bandit]

In the Lib worldview everything would be better if everyone else weren't so stupid - but since they are we want to ban everything we don't like. No wonder they're so popular.

[David]

"our dysfunctional political structure"

Your politically dysfunctional structure is my protection from the kind of statist tyranny that the hard left wants to push on the rest of us.

This is the same as the "ungovernability" canard that's been floated recently. As Dennis says, this stuff is all a cover for the real reason the legislation isn't getting passed. It's the political equivalent of whistling past the graveyard.

Expecting Matty to do anything other than shill for what his masters want would be unreasonable. Like all good cream of the scum, Matty stays bought.

[Ken]

It never fails, does it? When the road to the Progressive Utopia proves troublesome, the Progressive concludes that the people who don't want to be perfected are the problem. The Progressive solution? Fill the potholes with their skulls.

[richard mcenroe]

"Shoot! Shoot! You've Never Shot Enough!" -- The Big Boss, "Shape of Things to Come" by HG Wells...

[Mike Myers]

Well Tom, our "dysfunctional political structure" has managed to survive, limping along and all, for over 200 years.

And my local news channels in Los Angeles seem fixated on car chases. And frankly I don't give a damn if some bank robbing idiot is driving east or west or north or south on whatever freeway. That's not the "news that matters" in my world. There's a reason that nobody pays much attention to nightly local TV news. The weatherperson is the only one on most of those shows that possesses, or provides, much useful information.

But you know, most modern laptop computers will let you watch a video feed from Podunk Corners Pennsylvania--with the "local news". And if a Congress Critter is too damn dumb to assign a staffer to catch the nightly news from Podunk Corners, then the nightly news from Podunk Corners (including the car chases) just might not be that relevant.

[richard mcenroe]

Mike, you mean you don't hang on KTLA weather jester Marc Kriski's every pronunciamento on Global Warming?! But... but... he's Canadian!

I DENOUNCE YOU~!

[just passin by]

"take away the echo chamber"...

LOL, FOX ratings are double CNN ratings...
Beck's numbers are 5 times Chris Tingle's numbers...

If THOSE numbers indicate an echo chamber for the right, what do they mean for the Obamabots?

[Tom]

Dennis,

Apparently Yglesias mentioned Glenn Beck's name. thus, he was blaming Beck for the ... what exactly? What did Yglesias say except that people in Washington watch too much cable news?

"Yep. He's managed to find fault with just about everything other than the quality of the legislation itself and the quality of the leadership attempting to guide that legislation to passage. Funny how that works."

Wrong. He has been constantly writing about mistakes made by democratic leadership. Just search his website for the name "Baucus".

Additionally, he's been talking about the failed political system for years, long before the 2008 or 2006 elections. Look at what he said about the filibuster when dems were stupidly defending it in 2005 and 2006. Ineffect, he was championing the appointment of Bush judges!!! And if you know anyone who will defend the electoral college as a superior political system, well then you know a really dumb person.

When you want to make Matthew Yglesias say something he didn't say, try to make it at least believable.

[Tom]

David and Mike Myers,

"Your politically dysfunctional structure is my protection from the kind of statist tyranny that the hard left wants to push on the rest of us."

and

"our 'dysfunctional political structure' has managed to survive, limping along and all, for over 200 years."

Our political structure has changed considerably in the last 200 years, with the changes being spearheaded almost every time by liberals. End of slavery? Check. Women's suffrage? check. Direct election of Senators? check. I could go on, but you get the point.

And each time, conservatives accused liberals of trying to impose some "crazy" idea on them, like the tyranny of the black vote.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Tom-

Neither deliberate obtuseness with regards to MY's post nor grotesque oversimplification of historical fact carry the day with me. If you must argue, could you at least be less silly?

[Tom]

Wow. Silliness. OK.

Again, where does Yglesias say any of the things you say he does?

Where does he say the reason Dems aren't enacting their agenda faster is the fault of Fox News? What he is saying is that Fox News DOESN'T matter. Not that it is the reason dems aren't succeeding.

He is making the opposite point you accuse him of. He is saying dems should not watch or care about cable news, or they should care much less. They should ignore Fox News and consider only whether their policies are good in the long term for their constituents. If they lose an election, which many will regardless due to horrendous economic conditions, they will be fine. Congressmen and Senators tend to land on their feet and usually make considerably more money after retirement from congress.

His criticism is of democratic behavior and Washington myopia, not Fox News.

[Jman1961]

And to amplify Dennis' point; why not just drop the fuck dead, Tom?
Receiving 'stimulus' funds to compensate you for your time (wasted) here, douchenozzle?
BTW, slavery was ended (de jure - look it up, shithead) with the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation. Who signed it? The 16th President of the United States of America. What was that man's name? Abraham Lincoln. What political party was Mr. Lincoln a member of? The REPUBLICAN party.
Liberal, huh?
Ditto the argument for "the 'tyranny' of the black vote". Your reference to 1960's civil rights legislation, no doubt.
Get your facts straight...before you pontificate.
Stop peddling your crap: keep the greasy tips of your index fingers off of your computer keyboard.
Now begone, moron.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Where does he say the reason Dems aren't enacting their agenda faster is the fault of Fox News?

Where did I say I claimed he was saying that? Reading 101.

What he is saying is that Fox News DOESN'T matter.

Wrong. What he's saying is that Fox News SHOULDN'T matter. Again, Reading 101.

Bottom line? Either way, DOESN'T or SHOULDN'T, he's full of shit.

[Tom]

You guys are really nasty. Can't you be civil?

Jman1961,

I said liberals, not democrats, enacted the political change in this country. For quite a while, the republican party was the more progressive party in America, especially in the south. Abraham Lincoln, and the republican party, were the party of government investment in education, investment in the building of railroads and canals, building land grant colleges - all socialism by today's standards.

Conversely, southern Democrats were vile human beings. They resisted federal interference in their apartheid system, proclaiming "states rights!!11!!!" and voting against civil rights programs and government investment in education, health care, etc. They fought labor unions because the unions would represent both black and white workers.

Perhaps we are in agreement that Lincoln was a great president who fought hard for larger government investment in the economy. But I doubt you support that last part and I bet you would call the establishment of the state university system socialism. Hint: it is!!!

And southern dems resisted FDR and Truman's creation of a national health care system because blacks and whites would be in the same hospitals. Southern dems were truly vile. Now those people no longer vote democratic, and the people chanting state's rights are on the republican side of the aisle.

Getting the facts straight: Republicans were not always the party of conservatives, democrats were not always liberals.

[Tom]

Dennis,

you said Yglesias "Blame(s) the mainsteam media for not being sufficiently objective and/or analytical and/or sophisticated and/or...

No he doesn't.

"What he's saying is that Fox News SHOULDN'T matter. Again, Reading 101."

No. He clearly says that fox news isn't that influential. He clearly says that local broadcast news is more inflential, because more local people watch it. "By contrast, outlets that really are influential in terms of determining what people know—things like local broadcast TV news"

The truth is that very few people watch fox news, as compared to the number who watch all the local newscasts combined. I don't know anyone who still watches Survivor, but it still has 7 times the viewers of Glenn Beck. Maybe that is illustrative. Maybe not.

[Dennis the Peasant]

Wow. You're aren't playing at being obtuse, are you?

Are you sure your name isn't really Mark?

[Tom]

No response to any actual points. all right.

have a nice day. It is beautiful here in NYC.

[richard mcenroe]

Basic Alinsky, Dennis. Waste your opponents' time and resources by making them respond to an argument you don't care about to keep them from addressing issues where you feel vulnerable.

[Jman1961]

Here's my best attempt at civility with creatures like you: the logical 'end' to what is going on in this country is that leftists like you, should you choose unwisely (you certainly will) and continue to cram your (socialist, fascist, Marxist, communist...take your pick) dogshit down our throats, then you're going to wind up getting hurt, or worse. You can now employ your fevered imagination to divine what that means.
Why won't you and your ilk just clear out and head for Europe, where your utopia(s) are plentiful?
The day is near when I and millions of others like me are going to cram things back down the throats of you and your herd.
Leave us alone, you f***ing parasite.

[TC Lynch]

Are we actually dealing with Ezra Klein here, disguised in a bit of puppetry? Or is this a new spawn of Matthew slobberers that needs to be put down?

[Matthew Yglesias]

Given that nobody actually watches CNN or MSNBC at any time of the day or night, it isn't hard to figure out who Matthew wishes would go away.

Your post is really remarkably dumb. I meant exactly what I said -- that daytime cable news, including CNN and MSNBC but yes also including Fox -- has a very low viewership and that political professionals would do a better job if they turned the TVs off and just focused on their work. I didn't secretly "really" mean that I wish Fox would vanish. I meant exactly what I said.

[Patrick A.]

Some say our representatives should turn off Drudge, too. Cloister Congress, except for local crime and sports reports in ten cities per state per Senator, so that the People's work in a vacuum gets done better!

[Dennis the Peasant]

Jman-

Whoa. Cut back on the coffee. You're scaring me, and I'm supposed to be the scary one around here.

[harvey]

Jman's gotta be a manufactured VIOLENT REPUBLITHUG. I wonder who gains from such projecting such a persona... ?

[just passin by]

You're only scary when you break out the wig, Dennis...

I hear a lot of people saying what Jman is saying; Conservative people that don't consider themselves Republicans, but despise the leftist dishonesty of the Democrats. I don't mean Ron Paultards or truther nuts either.

They consider themselves to be paying the bill for "do-gooder" nonsense, and end up holding the bag. To add insult to injury, there is usually another loss of real freedom involved with these scams; i.e being required to have "government approved" health care.

The Republicans betrayed these voters on opposition to the bailout 1.0, for just one example, and got unelected. The Democrats just pretend they don't exist.

Either way, they don't feel like they are being represented. Hmmmm, what was that line from our Revolutionary history, again?

[Eric Blair]

Naw, It's not Mark, Tom's being fairly polite.

But right on with the obtuseness.